WAR: Release Delayed to Fall 2008

Oh noes! What if AoC gets smart and delays too? *cry* Anyhow, you can read the full discussion about the delay at the Warhammer Alliance forums, but I've also included the dev only comments below.

First off, Mark the Dev's opening post:

Folks,

So, I'm going to go ahead and create a topic here in which I'll be happy to talk about the change in release day and other associated subjects. As usual, I'll ask people to be polite and I will be so in return. Below this paragraph I have included some questions I expect you'll ask with some answers in advance. Please take the time to read this Q&A before asking me a question in return. I hate to be rude but I don't want to have to answer the same question again and again. Also, please read the entire thread (or at least my responses in it) before asking a question for the same reason.

And please, if you are going to use this thread to either outrage, disappointment and/or anger (real or feigned), I ask you please to do that in another thread. This topic is for people who want to talk to me about the delay, the reasons behind it, the effect on WAR, etc. As I said in the Eurogamer thread I expect lots of visits from trolls (just as we got the last time) from other games looking for an opportunity to pile-on because of this announcement.

Mark

1) When’s the release date? We are only prepared to say that the game will launch Fall 2008. Given the highly competitive nature of the MMO industry right now, we feel it is best not to establish a set launch date at the present time.

2) Will you still be able to launch the European and North American versions of the game simultaneously? That’s always been our plan for WAR and nothing about this delay endangers that at all. Actually, it gives us a little more time to make sure that everything is ready to go at launch.

3) How’s the beta going? It’s going quite well. We’re getting tons of great feedback and overall, we are quite pleased with the game’s progress. Given the rather complicate nature of MMOs in general, and the fact that WAR is both a PvE and an RvR game, getting it right at launch is paramount to the game’s success.

4) Do you think you are going to hit this release date? About as sure as we were the last time, which means that we’ll be sure that we’ll hit the date when the game goes gold master. Our confidence only increases the longer we are in beta.

5) It seems that WAR is taking a long time to develop, is this true? Mythic began work on WAR in Fall 2005. Even with this delay, if the game launches within the new window it will be only a three-year development cycle. That is far less than most other MMORPGs ... other than Dark Age of Camelot, of course.

6) How does EA feel about this delay? They feel the same way about it that we do, sad but supportive. We all would have loved to release this game in the 2nd Quarter but it wouldn’t have been a great game at launch we know it can be. A good game absolutely, but not great. Our CEO has been a vocal proponent within EA and spokesmen outside of it of the need to improve the quality of all games, including EA. We are thrilled to be happy to help meet his trumpet call.

7) It’s going to be a pretty crowded couple of quarters in the MMORPG space, why do you think WAR is going to be able to stand out? One of the lessons from developers like BioWare and Blizzard is that you can’t rush a great game to market. By taking the necessary time to make WAR a great game, we feel it will be able to stand out in any season. We would rather release a great game in the fall then a good one any other time.

Do you see any positives in the delay of the game’s release? Yes, lots of them. Extra time for polish, more time for iteration and a chance to be one of the standout products of the biggest selling season for the industry.

9) Why did you announce the date now? We could have waited to announce a delay, and in doing so take advantage of the hype surrounding the of the Collector’s Edition to sell a ton of copies. However, that has never been the way we’ve done business and that is not about to change now. We’ve always told the community that when a delay was necessary we would tell them right away, and we’re doing just that. I wish I could say all other developers do this but the fact is that they don't. We did what's right for the game but delaying the release and what's right for the community by announcing it now.

10) Will this have any effect on any other overseas launches for WAR? This has no impact on our plans for Asia.

First response to someone from the gallery:

I hate to sound like a broken record but it's pretty much the same reason we did it last time. In our schedule for WAR we had reserved a lot of time to polish the game (animations, RvR balance, UI, etc.) and during the last phase of beta it became apparent that while we could have completed the game by the end of Q2, we wouldn't have had the time to polish the game the way we wanted. And with our key competitor being the 2-ton gorilla known as WoW, going out into this market with a rushed game would not be a good idea.

Now, does this mean everything was perfect in Beta? No, of course not, that's why it's beta. The great news coming out of beta is that we don't have to make huge changes to the game. We will be tweaking things, adding new things, etc. over the rest of the development cycle but beta didn't reveal any major holes, issues, etc. that are the reason for this delay.

As I've said before, the key to success in the MMO market is having a great game at launch. That's was our plan from the beginning and that hasn't changed. If it takes us a little longer, it takes us a little longer.

As to the /respect, thank you. It actually was an easy decision. That's why I was telling people not to preorder until this event happened and why we never, ever wanted any store to leak the information before the event. If we had wanted a leak to drive sales we simply could have held off announcing the delay, sold through all our CEs, and then go WHOOPS! But that's not how I and Mythic do things.

Mark

And another response where the dev goes on to answer some questions from the gallery regarding the delay:

Folks,

Zyzus:

1) You stated this next release date is set in the mud, however.. Do you have an opinion on having any other delays after this new one? Like, do you believe this will impact the release significantly, by numbers of players, etc.
Still set in mud. We have no intention of releasing anything but a great game. We've worked too hard on it already, GW expects it, the community wants it and EA bought us in the expectation that we will make a great MMORPG. I've made lots of promises and I intend to keep them.

2) Is this delay caused mainly by the feedback from the beta, or overall feelings from the team? Or combination of both?
It's a combination of a lot of factors just like the last time.

3) Is this a polish issue, or more so a gameplay issue. Or once again, a combination of both?
Combination of both.

4) Is this going to impact the Collector's Edition of it at all?
Nope.

5) How is the developing progress going for the game, is it more than 50% done?
Lot more than that or we would be saying a Fall 2009 ship date.

6) Is this going to be impacting the availability of the game in Australia when it's released?
Maybe, maybe not. We were only planning for a simultaneous release in North America and Europe so the extra time *might* allow us to get servers up elsewhere earlier than we intended. As I've said in other threads, setting up Oceanic servers is a possibility but I don't want to promise something we can't deliver on.

Genesis885:

1) eta. When will we see more of an outline for it?
Soon we hope, depends on how the next stage of beta goes.


Fexxe:

1) Have you consideret making the beta an open-beta, since you now have more time on your hands?
Lol, I don't think we have more time on our hands since we are using it to finish the game but no, this doesn't change a thing with our plans for open beta. We have a good group of beta testers and we're getting lots of good feedback. Making it an open beta at this point would be a huge mistake as it would take even more resources and would, most likely, not result in a lot of new feedback but just a lot of the same.

Aenigma:

1) Will the push-back have any effects on Open Beta, or on the lifting of the NDA
Only by delaying it a bit. When we delayed the release, other things in our plan get pushed back. Now, I'm hoping we'll be able to lift the NDA sooner than you might think because of the delay but that'll depend on how well the next stage of beta goes.

Anomader,


1) Were there any particular aspects that stood out as just not being ready?
Nope, not at all.

2) Do you worry that delaying it too long could be counter productive?
Yeap, this isn't too long. Keep in mind that only one successful MMORPG has ever been developed in less than 2 years, DAoC. And I'm also not aware of any other successful MMORPG which was developed in less than three years (AC, EQ, EQ2, CoH, WoW, UO) and a whole lot of ones that took a lot longer and failed. WoW proved that lots of extra time + polish + smart decisions + game design = success so since WAR hasn't even been in development for 3 years now, I'm not at all concerned.

3) Finally, do you have plans in place to sustain hype over the coming months?
Yeap, keep the beta test going and keep telling people about what's in the game. If people like what they hear, they'll be excited about the game. If they don't, they won't. It's as simple as that.

Tianzi,

1) Is there specific new content on par with the keep siege system that is being added in this period that otherwise would not have been?
Maybe. Won't be anything big but it might be an expansion of some things that we would not have had time for otherwise. No details yet of course.

Filogreek:

1) I have been wondering though, will the upcoming WOW expansion affect the success of WAR, taking into account this new delay?
Well, they are the 2-ton gorilla in the PC market so only a fool and/or a liar (and I'm not either) would say that when it releases it won't affect us. All I can worry about is making sure that WAR is great and then everything else will fall out as it may.

Mark

Folks,

OmegaGryphon

1) Let's hope that they won't do a TR and recreate the game from scratch.
LOL. If we did that you'd find me wandering the streets of downtown Fairfax mumbling incoherently to myself about things like Chaos, Order, Destruction, etc. There is 0% chance of us doing that and I never say 0% unless it is truly 0%.

2) how will this effect the costs/expectations of sell when the game does hit the stores?
It won't. Our development costs go up of course but the extra time is so small in the scheme of things that nothing will change from our end in terms of what the subscription price will be. As far as sales forecasts, a lot depends on the competition and how good the game is, as always.

3) How much more of a audience would it need to be consider successful and be able to sustain early MMO that is always rocky?
I don't talk about what are forecasts are other than to say that they are low compared to WoW and higher than DAoC's forecasts. We're not trying to create a WoW-killer (most of the WAR fan base would be unhappy if we did) and EA agrees with us on this. Now, if I wanted to try to create a WoW-killer, I certainly know how to but WAR isn't it and, in the end, I don't believe that one game could kill another successful game.

4) Also please tell me that you won't do a Tabula Rasa and only finish low level zones.
Well, I can't talk about TR but I will say that is certainly not our intent or our plan. It certainly would be counterproductive to what we hope to accomplish with WAR.

Mongoose:

1) Do you plan on shutting down the Beta for any length of time for one last 'retooling' of any major elements or is it pretty much all about polishing out those last remaining tool marks at this stage?
The opening and closing of beta will continue to go on just as it has gone on for months. We're currently down right now while we prepare the next phase. Allowing the beta testers to take a break and allowing the devs to focus on all the feedback we already have is a great and proper way to do things and we see no reason to change it now.

2) I only want to implant one other small thought into your brain before I depart........Lizardmen vs Skaven in Lustria
LOL.

Greenwald:

1) But seriously - does it ever concern EA Mythic that they will lose a portion of their fanbase with these delays?
Nope because we know we will lose subscribers if we release a game before it is ready. As I said the last time, I'd rather have the fans pissed at us now than pissed at us when we release the game. So, if it's a choice between losing some fans now because we have delayed the game, we're willing to do that because nothing matters more than releasing a great game. After all, as has been pointed out numerous times, WoW had delays and a much, much longer development cycle and it worked out pretty well for them. The same is true for lots and lots of great games. If we build a great game than the fans will be happy and they will want to become subscribers. If we build a mediocre game, fans will be pissed and they won't want to become subscribers. Simple as that.

2) Similarly, what does EA Mythic plan to do to KEEP the fanbase already present?
Same thing we've been doing. Working our butts off to make a great game and letting people into the beta, doing lots of interviews, etc.

Vadimer:

1) Do you not want to launch a game back to back to another game?
I believe other company's release dates when they go Gold Master and not before.

Meanrock

1) Play some music, give us some trivia from the automated voice, remind us that our call is important to you.
I think we have done that in the past and are doing it right now. I think our action(s) surrounding this release date delay prove how important the community, our fans and our supporters are to us and to me personally. I doubt you'll find many example of companies doing what we are doing now and me getting up to post at 7AM is, ahem, quite special. The only thing I detest more than seeing the sunrise is having to work around that same time. As my posting history shows, I'm a late-night/way-early morning person. Must be why I like the Vampire Counts eh?

Disciple:

1) will guild beta start in the next month or 3?
We'll "Unleash the Guilds of War" (hey, new obnoxious catch-phrase!?!) when we are sure that we've done our best to ensure that the game is ready for such a large and experienced group of players.

Soundblaster:


1. Is it possible more content will be added with the extra time ,as in content that was planed from day one and may have been taken out?
Nope. We need to get what's in and on the schedule great before we go add anything new.

2. Will this Delay have an impact on other EA Mythic titles/ expansions this year( UO , DOAC)?
Hope not.


Paragonn:

1) There will always be things that can be made better/refined. Is this not what is happening here/could happen or are there actually significant changes that need to be made?
Polish, iterate and balance. Thankfully we are not having to yank out tons of stuff and redo it all. That would be bad.

Vid:

1) With this delay is there anything you can share about it that you haven't already shared
Not today of course but sooner than I was originally planning on with the new schedule.

DesmOnd:

1) by polishing do you mean graphics, animations, gameplay and such?
Yeap and more.

2) And is there any confirmed price on the CE?
There will be.

Rmedies:

1) here's a whole lot of old clips out there ... any chance you guys can feed us fresh game footage to keep us Oooing and Aahhhing for the coming months?
I think that makes perfect sense and we will do that. Especially when Altdorf comes online.

Mark

There's more, but the page loads so damn slow. I'm sure a lot of people who "quit" WoW are pounding it right now. (Along with their heads against the wall.)